Category Archives: Big East football

09.21.12
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Penn State fans taking smug attitude again

Temple will be seen on ABC TV in all of the blue areas.

For about 20 years, I’ve had a neighbor who was a Penn State fan.
I always envied him because his football program won all the time and my football program, except for the last few years of those two decades, lost all the time.
The relationship worked this way.
He felt sorry for me.
I envied him.

Then it changed a little bit over the last few months.
I felt sorry for him over the Jerry Sandusky thing.
He envied me because Temple didn’t have to deal with all that crap.
Before all that went down, we tailgated together at last year’s Temple game, his group welcoming me even though I wore my Temple jersey.
I then extolled the virtues of my favorite player, Bernard Pierce, telling them how good he was, that he was a football player who happened to become the Pennsylvania schoolboy 100-meter track champion while messing around with that sport his senior year.
“The great thing about him,” I said, “is that he’s got moves like Barry Sanders, but he’s not afraid of contact. He runs like a fullback. He can go 70 yards on any given play.”
One of the group then said something that pissed me off.
“No, offense, but if he’s so good, why is he playing at Temple?” in a matter-of-fact way and not kiddingly.
I just shook my head. Offense taken.

‘Temple won’t score a touchdown. They’ll get two field goals.’
_Philly sports talk radio host

I said there were a lot of guys who played at Temple who were really good, mentioning All-American and All-Pro Joe Klecko, former Heisman Trophy runner-up Paul Palmer, Big East offensive and defensive players of the year Dan Klecko and Walter Washington, former Redskins’ Tre Johnson and Leslie Shepard, Jets’ first-round draft choice Mo Wilkerson, etc., etc..
Then the game began and it was evident Temple had just as many good players as Penn State and played with a passion and pride Penn State didn’t display except for the final drive. When it was over, most of the Penn State fans in the group showed a lot of class.
“You guys deserved to win,” one of them said.
“One of these days we will,” I replied.
I’m heading up to Penn State with the same group tomorrow. I will bring my laptop and try to find a place to file a post-game report late Saturday night.
There’s a lot of that familiar swag among Penn State fans this year, that Temple can’t possibly win. Mike Missenelli, the sports talk host in town and a Penn State alum, said today on the radio, “Temple won’t score a touchdown. They’ll get two field goals. The score will be 20-6.” I hope Missenelli gets a lot of calls from Temple fans on his show Monday.
Pretty smug attitude about a Penn State team that lost to Virginia and Ohio. Virginia got smoked by Georgia Tech, 56-20, and Ohio struggled to beat Marshall, 27-24.
I know Temple will score a touchdown and I suspect the Owls will score several.
If that happens, and the Owls win, forgive me for not feeling sorry for Penn State.

08.27.12
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The most-anticipated TU season ever

Scotty Hartkorn’s brilliant Temple trailer is worth watching more than once.

A hot forecast for what could be an even hotter season for Temple

As a 30-year season-ticket-holder (and Temple football fan long before that), I can say one thing clearly and unequivocally:
THIS IS THE MOST-ANTICIPATED TEMPLE SEASON OF MY LIFETIME.
Will it be the best-ever?
That is yet-to-be determined, but I will write this down now for the historians and the pundits to revisit come November:

Temple will not finish last in the Big East this season. In fact, the likely landing spots are either No. 1 or  No. 2. I refuse to go any lower.

There is not a team on this schedule Temple can’t beat. Conversely, there is not a team on this schedule who can’t beat Temple. I like that because of the focus factor. No games off, no plays off.
That’s where Temple’s edge, toughness, comes into play. This is a very tough, proud team who will play the whole season with a huge chip on their shoulder.
If it was a tough team without talent, that would be one thing. This team is every bit as talented as any team they will play.
Heck, the 22 starters on this Temple team are as good as any 22 starters on any Temple team I have ever seen and that includes the 10-2 Temple team that was only 17 points (split between two losses to Penn State and a 10-9 loss to No. 1 Pitt) from being 12-0.
Yes, that’s how close Temple was to being a national champion in 1979.
Two games.
Seventeen points.
Seventeen.
Two games.
In almost all areas, I like this Temple team better than that one and this schedule is easier than the one that team faced.
As good as Brian Broomell was then, Chris Coyer has shown flashes of being a better quarterback now. Broomell called the greatest audible I’ve ever seen a Temple QB make. It was in the 1979 Villanova game at that tiny high school stadium they still have. Broomell went up to the line and saw that Gerald “Sweet Feet” Lucear was being single-covered. Without saying a word, Broomell pointed to Lucear, pointed to the end zone, tapped the center on hip, took the snap and threw a perfect 70-yard strike for a touchdown.
Temple 42, Villanova 10.
Coyer has the same kind of intelligence and skills, but they have better communication methods now. I see him doing the same thing with, say, Jalen Fitzpatrick.
It’s not even close between the Montel Harris/Matty Brown hybrid and a great running back named Kevin Duckett.
Not close because Duckett wasn’t good but because Harris and Brown are great.
I have to take Mark Bright over Wyatt Benson at fullback only because they gave Bright a chance to carry the ball. Bright was a great blocker. Benson is a better blocker. Both were/are team-first guys. Give Benson the ball as much and Benson is better, but I’ll never be able to prove that hypothesis. The game has changed enough in 30 years that the fullback rarely gets the ball.
The one area I would give a big advantage to the 1979 team was offensive line. Joe Paterno called the Temple offensive line “the best offensive line in the country” before the 1979 game and that was not mere hyperbole. Still, Martin Wallace and Sean Boyle could have played on that line and Benson’s role as a blocker means that the Owls will block enough people for Harris, Brown and Coyer to make explosive plays downfield.
Defense, I like the athleticism and line play of Chuck Heater’s group over the 1979 team.
Special teams?
No contest.
The 2012 team is the far and away better, especially with Brown returning kickoffs and Brandon McManus handling the plackicking and punting duties.
I have to take Wayne Hardin over Steve Addazio only because Hardin was to coaching what Bobby Fischer was to playing chess. He was able to fully transfer the 152 IQ he had into checkmating virtually every coach with similar talent. And Hardin was crazy like a Fox. Fischer turned out to be just plain crazy.
Yet as a motivator and CEO Addazio is every bit Hardin’s equal and no (none, zero) coaching staffs in the Big East are as good as Temple’s now.
Vince Hoch was a great defensive coordinator, but he could not hold Chuck Heater’s clipboard.
I know all of this because I’ve seen it with my own eyes.
The people who pick Temple last in the Big East have seen nothing.
Yet.
That’s why this most-anticipated season could turn out to be the best one as well.
Five days until kickoff.
It can’t come soon enough.

Tomorrow: Why I hate everything about Villanova not named Andy Talley or Joe Eichhorn

03.17.12
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Villanova: Never forgive, never forget

With Temple in the BE, Villanova  basketball now becomes as irrelevant as DePaul.

The definition of  charade is an absurd pretense intended to create a pleasant or respectable appearance.
I’ve never seen a more apt word describing the press conference to introduce Temple as the newest Big East member a couple of weeks ago.
Don’t let Villanova being at the table confuse you.
The part of the press conference (really, too much) that promoted Villanova’s involvement in this was a complete charade.
And Temple should never forget that.

Villanova resident Andy Reid will be rooting for the Owls.

Villanova fought tooth and nail to keep Temple out of the Big East in football, basketball and hop-scotch (if the BE offered hop-scotch).
In early October, the Owls were all set to be introduced as a new member but, as Lenn Robbins of the New York Post reported, the “conference call deteriorated into ‘Nova bashing Temple” and the Wildcats were able to form a voting block of Big East Catholic schools (St. John’s, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul) that denied Temple a spot at the Big East table.
According to our sources, Seton Hall and St. John’s decided to break away from that block a little over a month ago and the writing was on the wall. Villanova no longer had the votes to block Temple.
Villanova already had taken a huge public relations’ hit in the Philadelphia area over the last five months for blocking Temple and decided to show up at the press conference and call this its own idea.
Liars.
Although BOT trustees’ member Lewis Katz was effusive in his praise of Villanova, you could see at times the look of utter amazement on his face at some of the things coming out of the mouth of Villanova president, the Rev. Peter Donahue.

If I was Monangai (No. 26) ,I’d keep my head on a swivel 8/31

I like being in the Big East, but I’m not buying the charade.
Nor should any Temple person. Villanova fans took great pride at coming over to Owlscoop.com and delighting in the demise of the Temple basketball Owls and taking swipes at Fran Dunphy, a guy I consider a great coach, man and representative of Temple University. I’ve met Dunph only once and that was for a brief period of five seconds or so in the concourse of Lincoln Financial Field, but there is no bigger fan of the man and the coach out there than I am. Temple is blessed to have Fran Dunphy and Steve Addazio as coaches of its two flagship sports programs.
The loss to South Florida was no more his fault than it was Al Golden’s (and I’m pretty sure Al Golden had nothing to do with it). Dunphy can’t make Ramone Moore take it to the basket when Moore seemed totally disinterested to beat an overmatched defender. He can’t make Juan Fernandez shoot. He had nothing to do with Khalif Wyatt  being called for an ill-timed technical foul.
But Villanova’s days of delight are a precious few now.
“I want you to come out to (Lincoln Financial Field) and see us kick Villanova’s butt again,” said Katz, who came out of that press conference as a star in my mind.
Daz, consider that an order, not a request. The only knees the Owls should take in that game should be the post-game prayer, thankful for an 88-0 win.
When it comes to Villanova, never forgive and never forget.

12.16.11
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New Mexico Bowl: Final exam for Daz

Dave “Owlified” Gerson’s excellent senior highlight video. If there is a “techie” out there who can remix the background music of this from the classical format to D.J. Khaled’s “All I Do Is Win” on a loop than get back to me. Love the Ed Benkin call of Joe Jones’ touchdown catch and don’t love the Harry Donahue call on the Kee-ayre Griffin blocked field goal “running with it is Robinson. Johnson, rather” (which is pretty much a typical Harry Donahue call).

This is going to look awfully good at the E-O.

My good friend Fizzy and I were talking about Steve Addazio’s first year as Temple’s head coach after the final game of the regular season.
“I’m going to have to give him a C,” Fiz said. “Not excellent. Not good. Satisfactory.”
Fizzy is a former Temple football great and someone who spent the rest of his life giving out grades for a living as an esteemed educator.
I thought his grade of Daz was a fair one until that point.
I gave him an incomplete because you really can’t give Steve Addazio a grade until he completes his finals.
That comes tomorrow (2 p.m., ESPN) in the New Mexico Bowl.
If Temple beats Wyoming to a pulp, 31-14, something on the order I expect it to, Addazio’s grade improves to a B+, which is very good. If it’s a 28-27 win, it drops to a B.
I could not in fairness give Addazio a B or an A on the basis of his first regular season because I thought he made some key errors in judgment that could have cost the Owls at least a couple of games:

Some that come to mind:

  • Removing Mike Gerardi with a lead in the Penn State game. I thought Gerardi was following the “plan to win” until he was removed. The plan to beat Penn State was to avoid turnovers and make plays in the play-action passing game. Gerardi even threw the ball into the ground in the first half of the Penn State game, rather than make a turnover. When Chester Stewart was ineffective, Gerardi was reinserted and I really felt that the pressure went back to Gerardi to make a play in order to keep his job. The result was that he forced the ball into tight windows and Penn State picked him off twice.
  • The failure to remove Stewart in the Toledo or Bowling Green games. Stewart was never held to the same high standard Gerardi was and he was allowed to remain in the game Toledo despite throwing two picks. Against Bowling Green, it was painfully apparent he could not move the team. As a result, two games got away from the Owls.
  • Not recognizing the talent he had in Chris Coyer. Daz said he was “thisclose” to starting Coyer against Villanova. Had he done that, it’s much more likely Temple would have gone 10-2 instead of 8-4. Heck, Villanova was the perfect game to get Coyer’s feet wet. Owls would have beaten that sorry ass team, 42-7, with Stewart (suspended for that game), Gerardi, Coyer or Clinton Granger.

Now come the finals on Saturday before an ESPN national television audience.
Daz will ace his final with a 31-14 win and earn my B plus. He can’t get an A because I really feel this is the most talented team of the last three years and Al Golden reached a minimum eight with slightly lesser talent.
If he wins this game, though, Daz will accomplish one of the big things he said he would do (see sidebar of this blog) which is to get the team in a bowl game and win it.
That’s very good in my book and something Golden never did.
Heck, even a tough marker like Fizzy might be forced to redo his grade as well.

12.07.11
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Temple and the Big East in layman’s terms

When I think of Temple’s courtship of the Big East, I think of the classic romantic movie “Say Anything” starring John Cusack as Lloyd Dobbler and Iona Skye as Diane Court. John Mahoney is the overprotective and general sleazebag father.
In the iconic scene, Dobbler raises a boombox and plays Peter Gabriel’s “In Your Eyes” and Court eventually sees the two were meant to be together.
In the Temple football courting Big East version, playing the role of overprotective father and overall sleazebag is Villanova. Playing the role of the Mid-American Football Conference has been every other girl Dobbler has met up until that moment who paled in comparison to Court.
Temple was all set for a Big East invite in October until Villanova lobbied the other Catholic schools in that conference to keep Temple out.
In the movies, Temple’s boombox moment would have been its football TV ratings (tops in the MAC and among the best in the nation, rising attendance figures in football and its world-class basketball program). Seeing all this potential in its backyard, the Big East would have rolled out of bed into Temple’s arms.
Cut.
It’s a wrap.
Applause.
In this Temple reality version of Say Anything, the dirty dad (Villanova) tells the daughter he’ll cut her off if she’s got anything to do with the new guy and she makes the incorrect decision of doing what her dad tells her to do and not following her heart.
She then goes all over the country looking for the perfect man, wishing she could find someone as perfect as the guy in her backyard with the boombox. She spents the rest of her life regretting that decision and withers off and dies. That pretty much sums up the Big East and Temple these days.
On Dec. 7, 2011, a day that will live in Big East infamy, the Big East traveled 3,000 miles to get the Temple of the West (Boise State) and a San Diego State football program that averages far less in attendance and TV ratings than the Owls do. Not to mention SMU and Houston, so we won’t.
Temple has a world-class stadium, a football program that has averaged more than eight wins in each of the last three seasons, and is within easy driving distance of the original Big East footprint.
Sadly, the boombox moment appears to be over and this Big East girl does not want Temple. Time to move on to someone (Conference USA, perhaps) who will appreciate Temple and help the Owls realize their full potential. The other girls, the MAC, will understand.
If the Big East withers off and dies, and it will, that’s their loss.

10.31.11
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Former Pa. Gov. lobbying for TU in BE

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Ed Rendell introduces Hillary Clinton at Temple University.

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We’ll have a complete preview on the Temple vs. Ohio game tomorrow (which is really the only important thing to me right now) but I thought I’d use Monday to share some good news.
Former two-term Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell came out solidly behind Temple’s all-sports inclusion into the Big East Conference in a very big way today with an appearance on WIP Sports Radio (94.1FM and 610AM).
The Villanova Law grad also lectured his “other” alma mater on obstruction and really ripped them a new asshole, for want of a better term.
Since all of the Big East presidents are in town for the next two days, we assume this has gotten around and hopefully they will take Rendell’s advice to heart.
Place cursor over the gray area and advance it forward to the 5:25 mark.

10.20.11
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MAC Blogger Roundtable: Week 8

With this many fans wearing Cherry, it’s easy to see why Temple is so tough at home.

When Bowling Green opened the season with an impressive 32-15 win at Idaho (one of the few indoor campus stadiums in the nation), I thought this would be a tough week for the Temple football team.
It still might, but these are two teams going in different directions.
Temple is leaving the friendly confines of Lincoln Financial Field (above), where the Owls are 14-4 against MAC teams since joining the league.
Temple posted a couple of shutouts, both over teams that beat Ohio, presumably Temple’s toughest opposition for the MAC East title.

Bowling Green has lost three straight.
In the MAC, though, that means little.
Someone who can tell you about that is Mike Breese, who runs the Red and Black Attack blog covering Northern Illinois football. The Huskies opened with a 49-26 win over Army (which beat Northwestern), but also gave up 48 points in a loss to Central Michigan. Now they are coming off 40-10 and 51-22 wins over Kent State and Western Michigan, respectively.
So anyone who takes anything for granted in this league gets beaten.
Hopefully, Temple learned that lesson from Toledo.
Breese throws out the questions this week:

1. Just when one team thinks they have a hold of the division, it seems like the next week they get upset by a seemingly lesser-talented surprise team. How do you explain the volatility in the MAC this year, with CMU beating NIU, then NIU beating WMU and EMU defeating CMU just this past week?

TFF: There’s a lot of emotion involved in football. I’ve noticed a lot of the upsets come a week after a satisfying win. Maybe the work habits at practice are affected by that.

2. Going off of the last question, how emotionally involved are you with your respective team? Do you have your highs and lows or do you try and keep an even keel the entire season following your respective squad?

TFF: I get emotional only in rivalry games, like Villanova and Penn State. Villanova, because I know that school is trying its best to badmouth Temple at every opportunity. Penn State, because I know what a win over that program would have done for credibility in a pro market like Philadelphia. The rest of the season I’m on an even keel.

3. It seems like the MAC is past being a league where just offense prowess can win the league. Is that statement correct? Do you think your team has the right balance this season, or will one side of the ball have to carry the other the rest of the way?

TFF: I’m concerned about the offensive balance. Temple has a great running game, but the Owls have not demonstrated (yet) that you can trust the forward pass in a big spot, especially the deep routes.

4. If you could get a top recruit for one position on your team, which one would it be?
TFF: Quarterback.
 
TFF Rankings
Toledo

Temple
Northern Illinois
Western Michigan
Central Michigan
Ohio
Bowling Green
Miami
Ball State
Buffalo
Eastern Michigan
Kent State
Akron
This Week’s Picks
HOME TEAM IN CAPS
FAVORED TEAM IN PARENTHESIS
(point spreads from Tuesday’s USA Today)
TONIGHT
CENTRAL FLORIDA (13 1/2) 31, Ala. Birmingham 17 _ Central Florida beat Boston College, 30-3, and came within a touchdown of beating BYU. UAB is 0-6.
FRIDAY
Rutgers 14, LOUISVILLE (2) 10 _ Upset special. Gotta believe RU is better than its showing against Navy. Louisville has beaten only Murray State and Kentucky, neither impressively.
SATURDAY
MAC GAMES
Temple (13 1/2) 24, BOWLING GREEN 13 _ Falcons score a touchdown against Steve Addazio’s third-team defense late in the fourth quarter to cover the number. Hard to expect a third straight shutout against a team with a good QB.
Northern Illinois (14 1/2) 30, BUFFALO 14 _ Northern Illinois has looked very good the last two weeks and should cover the number.
Central Michigan 17, BALL STATE 14 (1 1/2) _ Upset special No. 2. Chips are an underdog. They win the game outright.
Western Michigan 33 (13), EASTERN MICHIGAN 17 _ Eastern Michigan stunned Central Michigan, 35-28, last week. I don’t think that’s sustainable over two weeks.
TOLEDO 44 (17 1/2), Miami (Ohio) 10 _ Despite Zac Dysert, Miami has had trouble scoring. Toledo hasn’t.
Others:
Georgia Tech, a 2 1/2-point underdog, wins at Miami, 24-14; Wake Forest, a three-point favorite, covers the number in a 20-13 win at Duke; Houston, a home 20 1/2-point favorite, covers the high number vs. Marshall.
Last week SU: 5-3; ATS 2-7 (including the under in Miami’s 9-3 win over Kent State)
Season SU: 40-18; ATS 26-31;

10.12.11
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Temple and the Big East

Waltter Washington was the last
Big East offensive player of year
from Temple. If the Owls are in
the Big East next year,
Bernard Pierce could be.

If  Temple football players are thinking the same thing Temple football fans have been thinking the last few days, you’ve got to like Buffalo’s chances of upsetting the Owls on Saturday.
Fortunately, it doesn’t work that way.
Or at least it is not supposed to work that way.
Over a three-day period, I received 14 emails from fans asking me what I thought about Temple going to the Big East and none (zero) about what I’m thinking about Saturday’s Homecoming Day with  Buffalo.
That’s a three-day record for Temple Football Forever emails.
My response to each one is that I’m not counting the chickens before they are hatched.

I know Villanova is doing its darndest to keep the Owls out. Since Pitt and Syracuse left largely BECAUSE Villanova was being considered as a football member, I can’t see that the Big East would be dumb enough to listen to anything that comes out of Radnor

Yeah, it is an exciting prospect, no doubt.
I’m more focused on the MAC.
Long before Temple was ever in the MAC, I was a MAC football fan. Long after Temple football leaves the MAC, I will remain a MAC football fan. I love the teams and the schools and the fans.
Heck, in the middle of the newsroom while watching MAC football about 10 years ago on a Thursday night on ESPN, I exclaimed:
“MAC football, I love it,” I said.
“I hear you, bro,” one of my fellow sportswriters said.
MAC football on Thursday nights on ESPN was a staple to me.
You couldn’t put on anything better than that, watching Big Ben play with Miami or some of those Northern Illinois teams (one that beat Alabama).
What I’m not a fan of is the way the conference is run.
I can’t respect a conference that “rewards” its three best teams trips to Detroit, Boise and Mobile.
I can’t respect a conference that is so impotent that it can’t lobby behind the scenes to get an 8-4 team into some kind of at-large bowl.
The Big East, for all its perceived faults, has terrific bowl tie-ins and enough clout to get any 8-4 team into most bowls.
Since it hasn’t “officially” happened (heck, it might have happened in the last five minutes for all I know), I’m not going to get excited about it. According to reports in two out-of-town newspapers, Villanova has been bad-mouthing Temple for three days of Big East conference calls, demanding that the Owls not get in for all sports. I know Villanova is doing its darndest to keep the Owls out. Since Pitt and Syracuse left largely BECAUSE Villanova was being considered as a football member, I can’t see that the Big East would be dumb enough to listen to anything that comes out of Radnor.

Villanova’s contribution to the conference call.

But Dumb with a Capital D has been the Big East’s middle name for about a decade so I would not be surprised.
My guess is that Temple is already in because the Owls have upgraded their football program significantly and would bring both the highest profile basketball program and largest available market into the mix with documented TV ratings success in their portfolio.
Wake me up when the ink is dry, though.
What I’m going to do is get excited about the Homecoming Day game with Buffalo this Saturday, hopeful for a big crowd (that could not hurt the Big East prospects if the ink isn’t dry by then) and focus on Temple beating Buffalo and winning the MAC.
We all know what happened the last time this team got full of themselves and unfocused. They got their heads handed to them by Toledo.
I don’t want that happening again.
I have a feeling that’s the message Steve Addazio is trying to drive home at The Edberg-Olson Football Complex.
Whether the team hears it or not, we should know by 4 p.m. on Saturday.
We’ll know about the Big East soon enough.
I’m just glad I never ripped that Big East logo off the Temple football game jersey I’ll be wearing on Saturday.

06.28.11
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Recruits: TU heading to the Big East

Over the last month or so, the biggest news surrounding Temple football has not been the verbal of three-star recruit Ben Onett or 11 other prospects, it’s the things the prospects and their families have been saying about Temple.
More specifically, one thing.
One of the recruits flat-out said that the Temple coaches have told him that the school is going to be playing in the Big East soon and another recruit’s father, Tavon Young, offered this interesting nugget yesterday:

“Tavon has committed to Temple,” said Mr. Young. “First and foremost is the academics and they pass with flying colors. He has always loved the staff that came up from Florida. He likes the defensive scheme. It is close to home and he will be a part of the Big East in 2012.”
Tanner Kearns, a tight end targeted early by Addazio, said this two weeks ago:
“I got to meet their coach and like him. I know they play in Eagle Stadium (Lincoln Financial Field) and plan on moving to the Big East soon.”

Huh?
That’s news to me, but not news to at least two recruits.
There are only a couple of conclusions to make from this:
1) Our coaching staff is blowing smoke up recruits’ butts in order to get the verbal;
2) Where there is smoke there is fire.

“Tavon has committed to Temple …it is close to home and he will be a part of the Big East in 2012.”
_ Tavon Young, Sr.


I’m hopefully going with No. 2 here because, while head coach Steve Addazio has a fabulous reputation as a recruiter, I don’t see him making stuff up to get a commitment.  His reputation for integrity, minus a possible UConn dalliance, is impeccable.

And I don’t see two recruits independently making up this Big East angle.
Maybe Addazio has had private conversations with athletic director Bill Bradshaw that indicated this move is imminent. Maybe not. Now that Villanova’s bid to get a spot has fallen through, TV sees Temple as the only real shot to get the largest available ratings’ market and has told the Big East to pursue Temple or no new TV contract.
Maybe not.
When recruits and their fathers routinely throw in the Big East angle as a reason for commiting, something has got to be up.
Where there is smoke, fire follows.
The question now is when does this become a fully-involved four-alarmer?