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Earlier: Matt F., Philadelphia; Matt P. (former Temple player) John from Landenberg and Jon E. from Cincinnati
Jay M. no hometown found ; Earlier: William B. Chicago; John from Landenberg, ; Mark B, South Jersey, Joe S, Springfield, PA…,
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I had the same feeling midway through this game that it was a 5 or 6 win team, tops. However, I disagree that it is all the coaches. I think the coaches play a HUGE roll in this. Maybe the worst coordinating job on both sides of the ball in 15 years. However, the talent on this team is way below what i expected. Here are my observations for what its worth:
-Speed – It has been a long time since I have seen a Temple team look this slow. Especially the secondary. They are trailing receivers constantly. #10 I dont think is as good as Advertised.
-Strength – When is the last time you saw a Temple defense look this weak? And I am talking about strength. Every runner falls forward for 2-3 yards after contact. Verys rarely has a runner been pushed back this year.
-OC – overmatched and no rhythm. We have no identity. He does not call plays to our strengths. The freshman comes in and moves the ball and then they pull him. I think it was a good adjustment bringing him against the defense that Umass was playing. Then we went away from it.
-Running game – I know everybody on here wants to run the I formation and play action pass. However, the O-line is really bad and the running backs have not been very good. Spread em out and use this really good receiving corps. Use formations tht get Kirkwood or Jennings or Wright or Ellick on a lb or the other team’s 3rd or 4th cornerback and expose that. This team needs to use the pass to set up the run. nd please stop running the spread option with Marchi. He cant run and he makes bad decisions.
DC – Mayhem is a joke. Wide open receivers everywhere. Huge chunks of yardage. Not sure if it is scheme, talent, or both. Frankly, I don’t care. It is the DC’s job to create a scheme that best fits the talent. We are nowhere near that.
Here’s the problem with “spreading ’em out” ….if you have a bad o-line that can’t run block, what do you think will happen when you get them pass blocking with no play action, backs or extra blockers to help due to formation?Teams will overload, isolate and get the weakest of the herd on an island….our inexperienced QB’s would be in great peril!
You are spot on with the D….they were supposed to be so much more.
Pass blocking is different than run blocking. Dont need to hold a pass block that long if you can scheme the mismatch. Especially in shotgun.
Given the level of talent that has been built up on this team I do think this a time when Rhule’s replacement probably should have been someone with head coaching experience. I understand every coach wants their “own” system in place but they also need to be able to use the talent in place. Don’t see that happening here and with what Mike pointed out regarding a new NCAA transfer policy I wonder how many below the line players who seemed to be poised for major roles under the last regime transfer out.
I know some of the folks here are also on the Temple fan FB page and wonder if you are as tired as I am with the “give the coach a chance he’s new” and ” this is a rebuilding year”.
If giving a coach a chance is going 4-8 after 2 10 win seasons then count me out. More than enough examples of good coaches stepping into similar situations and maintaining the winning. Maybe a game or 2 step back but not the potential drop off we look like we’re headed off these first 3 games.
If this is truly a huge “rebuilding” year then I would say that makes Matt Rhule a more sophisticated version of Daz, by that I mean he built a team not for the start of a long haul but rather to peek in 3 to 4 years for the big payday at a P5. Sure we have a number of key starters to be replaced but if Matt was a good recruiter, for the record I do think he was, the this roster should have some red shirt seniors and a good number of underclass men ready to step up. Plus Collins isn’t replacing 22 starters!!!
And can we lose the $ signs, the Swag coordinator or whatever the title is, etc
The great Phila Sports sage, Buddy Ryan said, ” Hell, I’d rather be lucky than good “, said it all. How can winning a FB game so lousy, so upsetting, just no darn fun ?
Was at that game and I was starting to root ‘ just a bit ‘ for UMass because I was impressed with their running, passes into the middle, and their FG Kicker who gave us the victory.
I started to hear buzz from the fans that will soon morph into Boos.
Are TU players that bad ? How can there be no funning game for #7, RA ?
Geeze this really stinks , and still they win….
Someone explain why the middle is so open on D, are the L Backers that poor ?
Why can the O Line not protect well or open a hole or contain the D rush coming in ?
Players or Coaches, who and what.
This team has two major weaknesses, the offensive line is terrible in run blocking and the defensive secondary is just as bad. In addition, the line backing group is also terrible in pass coverage. How many time last night were guys wide open 10-15 yards down the middle of the field. How do you get nine sacks and give up 377 yds via the pass? I never bought into the 8-10 wins some posted, but it’s gonna be a struggle to get six. This team is boring as hell to watch too. I’m beginning to think in both the college and the pros that defensive guys make lousy head coaches. Collins and company not very impressive, team collectively is not getting any better.
Except for Dawkins (and that’s a big exception) the offensive line is basically the same group that won a championship last year. They don’t seem as strong (literally as well as figuratively) as they were last season. My theory is that George DeLeone got the most out of his talent and the new guy (Wisenhan, who was in a different role last year) is not really in DeLeone’s coaching class.
Badley, asked a similar question in an earlier post. Memphis has to replace Fuente they hire Mike Norvell, and offensive guy and he goes 8-5 with a new starting QB his first year. Hermann takes over for Tony Levine after 2 7-5 seasons and he improves the situation there. Don’t know what kind of coach Collins will be but I think his biggest mistake was his choice of coordinators right now
Worst play call was the last drive; 3 yards to put the game away and they go 31 group, shotgun zone read. I actually wanted them to lose after that to prove a point…..
So I guess we can confirm no Anthony Russo, after seeing Toddy is their #2? It’s a shame.
I suspect Russo is less mobile than the guys who played yesterday, he’d probably get killed with that porous offensive line.
Russo is no Marchi in mobility, but he does have functional mobility–that is, being able to step away from a rush and make a downfield throw. I’d like to see him get one chance at Temple before he transfers to LSU or Rutgers.
The coaching staff is stealing money. How do you let UMass’s offense beat you exactly the way Nova dod with drags across the middle? Did they watch last week’s film? And how can receivers be so open? There were several times when a TU guy was nowhere near the receivers. On offense, you can’t run a read option if the QB never runs. Marchi is average at best. And the two qb option calls on consecutive series had to be the worst two calls I have ever seen. As bad as TU has been previously, this is the first time in my memory that the crowd loudly booed the Owls. Too bad that the kids didn’t know that they were aimed at the coaches, who clearly are lost. Finally, the freshman QB comes in and runs the read option the way it’s supposed to be run and he doesn’t see the field again. One thing said above that I disagree with is that these coaches are playing not to lose. That gives too much credit to the coaches because it implies that they have a strategy. After three games it is clear that there is no strategy and they are coaching from the seat of their pants. Thursday’s game is going to ruin next weekend. Be forewarned.
Everything Mike says is right on. Also, the only “mayhem” is the use of two kickers, giving neither the chance to get in rhythm (plus we could have redshirted “Boomer” to have for another year) and the QB situation (4 QBs above the line and no red shirt for a true a freshman). Both OC and DC should be fired but Collins won’t do that. Actually, Collins doesn’t look like a top tier HC but we are stuck with him. Treatment of top QB recruit Russo is a mistake and I expect him to transfer out, after the season. (When is the last time a QB picked TU over LSU and got thrown on the garbage pile?) Too upset, disappointed and disgusted to say anything else.
Burning Boomer’s redshirt and, now Toddy’s, screams this: “I’m outta here like Vladimir. What do I care if Temple doesn’t have Boomer in 2020 nor Toddy in 2021? I didn’t say anything about building a house of brick, not straw, like Golden did. Give me two years here and I’ll get my P5 job and I’m throwing the torch over my shoulder. Look at that straw burn. Light it up, baby!” Say what you will about Al, he kept his promise to Temple. He redshirted 15 guys every season and built a nice brick house that allowed Daz to take home a bowl win. He knew he was headed to bigger and better things, but he had enough respect for Temple to leave the place in a much better shape. Don’t think Daz or Collins even thinks in those terms.
Mike, someone posted on the TU fan facebook page that a player can play up to game 4 of a season and not burn their red shirt. I don’t keep track of NCAA rules so I thought the same thing regarding Centeio
The way Temple is playing now… don’t expect Collins to get any big 5 offers anytime soon.
Agree with Kevin. No P5 coaching offers are being made to Collins within the next 2 years. From what I’ve seen, Collins hasn’t earned it.
I like the dialogue and feedback on TFF. Some of you should check out CherryConnect because it could use an infusion of new members who are willing to comment and be active participants. You get ‘points’ for checking in, game predictions, Forum and Social comments, even Trivia Questions. Actual prizes from Athletic Dept, including tickets to games, merchandise, etc. However, participation has dropped off and I am getting lonely over there as the Season and All-Time leader in points. Check it out and join: http://connect.owlsports.com/
Gentlemen: as I said last week, I don’t have the technical knowledge you have…so can someone explain to me what it is that the DC is doing with (as the announcers said in the 4th Q) our “NFL prospects” in the secondary…that is causing the opposing QBs to eat us alive? Is it something about the scheme the DC is using? Otherwise… how can the receivers be so glaringly open if our DBs are future NFL players?
I walked away from the championship game feeling good about our prospects because, hey, three of our four secondary starters (Chandler, Randall and Foster) were back and they played great last year. Hell, Chandler and Randall were being called one of the top safety tandems in the country not by Temple people but by others. Then we had a back (Ryquell Armstead) who had a great game against Navy and USF, the best fullback in the country and the best group of Temple wide receivers I’ve ever seen. They all flourished under a different staff last year. It’s got to be the coaches. I don’t think the kids got worse in a year. It’s not logical. Baylor is not happy with that staff, so maybe we can execute a trade of staffs that would benefit both ballclubs. Certainly ours.
To Rob Vaughn. It’s all about whether they play zone or man to man. There are many cover defenses from cover zero cover six, each of which is a zone defense. Cover two is very popular and serves as the default defense for many teams. Its name comes from the position of the safeties, who both play deep zone coverage. The defense sets up with 4 linemen three linebackers and four d-backs. In this coverage scheme, the two safeties play further back, while your linebackers and cornerbacks play zone coverage underneath the safeties. Each person underneath covers about 1/5th the width of the field for about 7 yards deep. The two safeties split the field and each cover half against the deep pass. I did not see much of this and they should have used it because it stops the underneath pass if the five lbs, corners stay in their zones. TU is screwing up because the underneath guys are abandoning their zones or they are deked out of position by receivers running through the zones. There’s also man to man, which plays exactly like it sounds. There also are hybrid coverages that use variations of the above-safeties play zone while corners play man. A nickel defense is one where a linebacker is replaced with an extra d-back in obvious passing situations. Can also play a dime defense which replaces two linebackers with 2 d-backs. These defenses can be run man-to-man or in a zone. The downside to them is that they are vulnerable to the run.
Thank you, John. Helpful.
Guys – New to this blog and new to Temple Football, having taken an interest because my son just started there. I am a long-time Boston College Football fan, so I feel a great kinship with you since we’ve both suffered heinously at the hands of one Steve Adazzio.
I’ve watched all three games from afar — and I agree with most of the assessments here with one big exception.
I am actually a fan of Marchi — particularly given that he is only a sophomore in his first season at the helm. The kid is a gunslinger and you have seriously talented receivers (we would die for them at BC). He showed some serious throwing ability last night — and that last touchdown toss was terrific.
Given that the o-line doesn’t seem capable of opening up holes for the I formation, I would jettison that approach, regardless of how much it may be the legacy of the program. Open it up and let the kid throw. Not only will the ball move down the field. But it will set up the run as someone above mentioned. Of course mistakes will be made — but so it goes.
This team will likely struggle against the top programs — starting this weekend against USF — but if the coaches adapt to the strengths of the players on the field, and they’re allowed to develop, you could see a rebound next year.
Now, I need to start drinking so as to numb myself before BC loses to Notre Dame worse than you guys did. The consolation we’re all clinging to is our new Athletic Director from Ohio State who is very clear: We have to win. God willing, this will be Daz’s last year as a head coach and we will all be free. Looking forward to BC vs Temple in 2021 and 2022.
Billy: My condolences. We’ve already been through Addazio. Now, I fear, we have Daz 2.0. The difference is that Daz 1.0 gave us our first bowl win in 30 years and we don’t look close to a bowl with these substandard performances in the first three games. Don’t let the two wins fool you. They were just as bad from a performance standpoint as the 49-16 loss.
Temple is Terrible…., no game speed, I think the team has entered each game with tired legs..,
the defensive and offensive schemes suck, mismatch for the talent we do have…,
I said in earlier posts Toddy would be the starter by game 4, let’s all hope I’m right
7 penalties against an inferior opponent is a dire indication we are getting worse each game, not better..,
this is so sad and disappointing, it hurts.., feeling bitter and betrayed
Mike, Russo strikes me as a I-AA transfer guy, if a transfer happens. Why sit out the year? He can play right away in the CAA and still get next level looks if he shines.
I see on the Temple Fan FB page there is a new reason for the teams problems this season, we are so young sine the announcers said Temple is the 111th youngest team in college football. Unlike most of the folks over there I believe John Belli and I are interpreting this correctly, there are 110 teams younger than Temple. Looking at the ATL, outside of LB and QB there are a lot of R-senior and juniors on the chart. Since I work in the data analysis area as a career I decided to download the entire TU roster and see how things break out.
The Owls were 3-3 after six games last season before the 30-second Madhouse at Bright House. They looked pretty mediocre.
The idea of playing up to 4 games without burning the RS is a proposal still, so not applicable yet.
Regassert6, thanks for that info caused me to do some research and couldn’t find anything indicating that proposal was approved. From the best I can determine digging through NCAA rules playing that series burned a year of eligibility for Centeio. If anyone has any better info on the red shirt process I’d appreciate that
From my experience in the early 1990’s, if a frosh played in a game or two in a limited capacity and that player developed an “injury” that was documented by the team doctor and trainer, that player was eligible for a medical redshirt. However, if the playing time is significant, say a full game or two, the chances for a medical redshirt decrease.
This guy wants to so desperately be everyone’s friend rather than a coach. Rhule was hated by many of the players but you better believe they respected him. This staff has taken truly one of the toughest grittiest programs in college football, forged in the broken glass and gravel on 10th and diamond, to a soon to be bottom feeder of the AAC. (check around the AAC today, P5 getting all they can handle).
We’ve got memes and comics in the weight room next to the rainbow colored dead lifting weights. What happened to putting on 45 plate after 45 plate and taking care of business?
We’re more concerned about tweeting what were doing and having swag than actually doing whatever task is at hand!
I liked us when teams were afraid to plays us. I’m not too much of a fan of this new Temple that lets 5 men into the backfield every play while playing UMASS!!….
Only good thing to say is at least collins has as many wins as Rhule did his first 12 games in 3.
Psc, my understanding now is Centeio can play in the USF game, then not play after that, get “injured” and apply for a medical red shirt as you say. Playing him Friday cancelled just using a “regular” red shirt
No, playing him for 4 snaps did not cancel his regular redshirt, he can play some more and still be eligible, let’s take a deep breath.
According to Shawn Pastor (I believe he runs the Scout.com Temple site) who answered the same question on the FB fan page it did. Centeio can play in the USF game, no more after that and then apply for a medical redshirt.
I have a feeling this staff doesn’t care if it burns every freaking redshirt on the roster. They don’t think like Golden and Rhule.
I can’t take this key positions filled with young players, new coach learning, everyone learning a new system, blah, blah, blah. Sure we only had 10 starters returning, but there are a lot of players on this roster who got a lot of playing time last year who should be capable of stepping up. I looked over the ATL chart and there are a good number of RS seniors and juniors across the board. Ok QB and LB have young players so maybe this staff should work with the strengths on both sides of the ball. On offense maybe a little more imagination with this receiving corps, things like quick slant, power run game, drop the read option plays. On defense, I think John Belli laid things out pretty well in an earlier post. This is a team coming off back to back 10 win seasons and a conference championship with a coach who seemed to be red shirting a good number of players each year. Tired of the “well we’re not Alabama” no we’re not but we’re also not in the SEC and seems several of our peers in the AAC are able to retool and still keep winning. Sure we’re not Alabama but don’t tell me we shouldn’t be on par with say Memphis!!!! At this point if the staff keeps looking as clueless as they have in the first 3 games my question on the FB board is you have 2 choices:
1. Rhule basically built a team designed to peak in 3 to 4 years knowing he would be out of here and Collins needs to rebuild. In that case I would give MR the moniker of Daz 2.0, the Improved Edition.
2. This staff is in over their heads, know that Temple never fires anyone and they can use this year to put in there system to peak in 2 to 3 years, learn how to be a HC and then head out of town
JD you forgot one thing. Either way TU is screwed. I’m watching Toledo Tulsa losing by seven 51-44 with 8 minutes to go. How do these teams always seem to come up with very good qbs. Toledo is always pretty good as is Ohio. If they can do it TU should be able to. It is just so frustrating that TU keeps making the same kind of mistake when hiring a head coach. People over at Pravda and Facebook are complaining about the criticism of Collins and use Rhule as an example. They are complaining that it’s unfair to judge Collins so soon and point to Rhule as an example of someone who learned on the job. Tu can’t afford two years for a coach to figure it out and Rhule only became successful after he dumped Satterfield and adopted an offense that numerous people here were pushing a year before Rhule did it. Collins has learned nothing from what happened under his friend and is making the same mistakes Rhule made. The difference is that Collins has better talent and should know better. Finally, also watching Texas USC. Texas looks like a different team than the one slaughtered by Maryland. They do because Hermann’s a good coach as opposed to the current coaching staff, which did nothing to stop the underneath pass after getting killed by it last week. I’m dreading Thursday because Flowers is ten times better than the qbs TU faced the last two weeks.
John agree 100%. I remember Toledo, Ohio and NIU from our MAC days, always stayed competitive. Said the same thing about Herman when he took over at Houston. Also, I know I throw out Memphis a lot but if you look at their recent history say from 2000 on very similar to Temple. When Fuente leaves, their record setting QB leaves along with some other key players on both sides of the ball they go 8-5 the next year with a new QB, Ferguson, who I think threw for close to 40 tds his first year starting. I didn’t see the final but they were giving UCLA a hand full tonight, beating them last score I saw. Maybe I’m not as optimistic as Mike but I really felt this team would be 6-6 worst case scenario and catch a few breaks maybe 8-4. I just don’t get this attitude that a 5-6 game drop off in wins would be anything less than a hiring fail. I beginning to wonder if a guy like Collins figures he can recruit enough good players to be winning by year 3 and he’s out of here in year 4 or 5. Basically throws away his first year in a sense to get his system worked out before moving on to his new team. Maybe I’m just getting tired of the swag, the mayhem talk and the above and below the line
Players aren’t coached on the simple things that get flags thrown. running into a return man who has signaled fair catch, numerous motions, out of bounds hits. Looked like back in the Dickerson years.
The same DB’s on the field who were so good last year don’t have a Reddick rushing the passer from all over. Makes a difference. Seven sacks last night tell me there’s something good possible with the right matchups and calls. Is there a person on the sidelines or up high who can do that though?
As it was, the UMass PK and the two inches away from being TD passes that could have been would have killed the season. Let’s be optimistic that these coaches have been holding on to something and USF will see the video and come out overconfident.
after watching the all games of our future opponents this weekend here is the current prediction: 5 – 7; no bowl game..,
playing Army and Navy back to back is a huge disadvantage physically and mentally ..
at USF – L (blowout, will get ugly)
Houston – L (blowout)
at ECU – W
UCONN – W (we always beat these guys)
at Army – L (Army believes they can beat anyone)
Navy – L (revenge on their minds)
at Cincy – W (this game might be a toss-up game in a few weeks)
UCF – L (revenge on their minds)
at Tulsa – L (Tulsa will be playing for a decent bowl game, we won’t)
5-7 to me makes it bad hire, wastes a year from at least this fans perspective.
I do think there is also a plus in playing Army and Navy back to back you can concentrate all of you prep into one period rather than having the games a couple of weeks, that is if this staff bothers to do any specific prep for the academies offense.
On anther topic looks like Pravda has fully infiltrated the TU Fan Facebook page, read the first “it’s a process” post
That guy you were arguing with over the supposed “youth” of the Owls really has no clue how experienced this team is and how much talent Rhule left Collins, which is even more than Golden left Daz (and that was a lot). It’s almost like he thinks we are starting over, talent-wise, and nothing could be farther from the truth. Best fullback in the country, best wide receivers in the country, (among) best secondaries in the country and a real solid defensive line. OL should not be performing this poorly and the quarterback is not that far a dropoff from P.J. Something is wrong and it is not the kids.
Mike, there appears to be a group forming over there that is just all over this is such a young team, some many key positions with young starters, new coach needs time with a new system……. That’s I keep sticking the choices I give the folks there, either Rhule left the cupboard bare, which you and I and I think most of the people who post here don’t think that’s the case or right now this has the potential to be a bad coaching hire. I don’t know how you could think both that there is a lot of talent on this team and the coach is doing a good job!!! I don’t want to hear about learning a new system, to me a good coach, even a rookie head coach, should recognize the talent that is in place, take advantage and over time recruit his players to fit his system, be flexible and keep winning. This is not a rebuild with this team. We can’t stay in a 1 or 2 good years and then 3 so-so years and expect to have any chance of moving up when there is then next and probably final re-alignment Look at Rutgers, not a great program but Schiano was able to string together a series of consistent, winning seasons and Flood was able to maintain for a few more. Know there was more to it but that helped them get into the B10.
As for the age of this team, I looked a the entire roster listed on Owlsport, 111 players. Average age assuming 18 when graduating from high school is 21 years old (actual number 20.68). 43% of the roster is juniors, RS juniors, seniors and RS seniors, 23% sophomores and RS sophomores and 35% freshman and RS freshman. If you look at the ATL chart only the QB and LB positions don’t have a number of juniors and seniors listed.
I have vehemently attacked the dopes on Facebook who want to give Collins a chance because he has been given a team coming off a championship, one that has some of the country’s best players at several positions and not one, but four competent QBs. Like I said, the comparison to Rhule and his run ignores the fact that Rhule was not handed a talent-laden team and that he foundered solely because he was going to run things his way despite solid proof fact that it wasn’t working. After two games, Collins should have realized that his way is not working and then reverted to the game control offense using a lot of play action that worked so successfully for Rhule. Moreover, DC made no changes after Nova and ND and was burned by UMass on plays Nova ran the week before. That is unforgivable and deserves waves of criticism.
John, there should be some fun reads for you and Mike later this afternoon as I just posted a rather long reply to a guy I’ve been going back and forth with. He’s going for the trifecta now, new staff rebuilding, young talent everywhere and a process we have to have patience with. A question for both of you how do you think the talent level of the team Rhule left Collins compared to the team Golden left Addazio?
Re John: I can’t *like* or *thumbs up* your comment on this blog, but if I could I would.
All I have to say on the rest of this season: Stick a fork in the coaches, they’re done.
fact based logic is a proven method…, it will be hard to ignore the facts after the USF game…,
the Temple 2017 team does not have the players to replace the 2016 most productive four, Jahad Thomas, PJ, Praise, and Reddick…, and; the OC and DC do not have the wisdom to successfully scheme the talent we do have….,
buck stops w/the head coach for 2018.., recruit much better talent and/or get better assistant coaches
KJ, I tend to agree more with your point regarding the DC and OC. On defense I believe there are players on the roster used in the right schemes that can come close to making up for the performance of Riddick and Praise-Martin, always tough to replace a #1 pick. The key is as you said someone who has the wisdom how to use the players at his disposal. So far I haven’t seen it and this will either become painfully obvious after USF or we get surprised, I’m leaning to the former. On offense again with the right strategy the tools and firepower is there. Again I think the OC is clueless and this year is starting to look like Satterfield 2.0
football is funny; Temple beat USF last year but USF finished in the Top 25, Temple did not.., Rhule turned down the Oregon job, Taggart took it, Oregon is 3-0 and Baylor is 0-3…,
Oregon and USF are in the Top 25 this year, Temple and Baylor are nowhere to be found…,
not too many years ago, Charlie Strong had the wisdom to recruit an NFL QB to take Louisville to the promised land.., this year he and USF will crush Temple again….,
why is it so hard for Temple to learn?
“why is it so hard for Temple to learn?” That’s the age old question for Temple football. On the brink of sustained success and then the crap starts all over again. Is the overall Temple situation just not attractive enough to get proven, successful HCs? Or what? Or are the ADs and BoT just not good enought or care enough to realize who the best choices are, seek them out and lure them in? At least this last 10-12 years have been tantalizing for us older fans even with the ups and downs within that time frame. “Oh Well” has the best commenter name for Temple!
But, go Owls. Hope we see some changes against USF. As Mike said, if their last opponent (a program nobody ever heard of) could give them a run for their money, why can’t Temple?