Category Archives: AAC football

03.25.19
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The New AAC Contract and Temple football

temple

For the last half-century, the halves have enjoyed increasingly more wealth than the have-nots.

College football’s schism between rich and poor is no different.

That’s why the new contract the AAC signed with ESPN should not be surprising.

Sure, the AAC received more money (a reported $1 billion) from ESPN but it pales in comparison to what the Power 5 schools get.

The 12-year deal with ESPN will be worth $1 billion, or an average of $83.3 million per school over the life of the contract. The new deal will run from 2020-21 through the 2031-32 academic year.

For Temple, the new contract will increase its yearly conference media revenue from $2.16 million to $6.94 million.

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The Star Complex is one of the best indoor facilities in the AAC

A significant part of the deal is the absence of a grant-of-rights agreement which would have prevented schools from jumping to a Power Five conference. Such agreements enhance media rights deals because conferences offer TV partners the assurance that the composition of the league will not change.

That means schools like Temple (and notably Cincinnati, Houston, and UCF) can still accept a spot in the Power 5 if offered.
I don’t see that happening as the musical chairs seem to be over. The 64 schools do not want to share the pot of gold with the other 67 schools.

According to the Sports Business Journal, “the majority of basketball games and a significant number of football games will go to ESPN+,” which is a subscription digital streaming service. The contract will include some Saturday football games on ABC, while most football, and men’s and women’s basketball will remain on ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU — at least those not on the streaming service or CBS networks. (I don’t know about you, but the $4.99 a month on ESPN+ is among the best investments I have made. For the price of a beer at Xfinity Live, you can get to see an unlimited number of live sporting events.)

Bottom line with this contract is that Temple is in a better position to compete with its G5 partners because of the recent football buyouts and this new contract. The other AAC schools do not enjoy the windfall that the Owls have had with Geoff Collins’ $2.5 million and Manny Diaz’s $4 million.

Still, unless some miracle happens, they (and Cincy, Houston, and UCF) will remain on the outside looking in for a long time.

Wednesday: Tidbits From Spring Practice

Friday: Mark Your Calendar

Monday: Glass Houses

10.27.18
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Who Should Temple Root For Today?

To me, a Saturday without Temple football is a Saturday without sunshine.

This time, figuratively and literally as the rains will be pouring and the winds will be howling in Philadelphia–which would be a terrible time and place to host a home game today.

Call it a blessing in disguise.

That doesn’t mean there isn’t anything on the line today for the Owls in AAC football.

On the surface, you might say root against all of the AAC East teams in action today–specifically, Cincy and USF–but I’d say hold on a minute.

If you are Temple, you’d WANT Cincy and USF to beat the two Texas teams, SMU and Houston and here’s why: If Temple is able to beat UCF next week and South Florida on Nov. 17, it will have beaten three ranked teams in four games. If Cincy beats SMU, it also has a chance of getting ranked again. Houston, even with a win over USF, will probably not crack the rankings.

Temple controls its own AAC East destiny and if this truly is going to be a great season (or a “ridiculous” team as Geoff Collins called the Owls before the start of it), you’d want the best possible resume at the end. Because with wins over UCF and USF, the Owls will hold AAC East tie-breakers and a berth in the title game. Even a loss to Houston could be absorbed in that scenario. Temple has to beat both the Florida schools anyway so go Florida schools.

That said, I think USF’s unbeaten season ends today.

tvsaturday

Here is our six-pack (home teams in caps):

HOUSTON 21, Usf 10 _ The host Cougars easily cover the 7.5 spread. They have speed to burn and may end up as the overall league champion.

Cincinnati 35, SMU 20 _ Cincy will find the crowd noise not as loud in Dallas as it was in Philadelphia so there will be no snafus with the snaps and the Bearcats will easily cover the eight points.

NC State 24, SYRACUSE 17 _ ‘Cuse changed quarterbacks from Eric Dungey last week and that indicates a level of panic in upstate New York. This game went from a pick to ‘Cuse being a one-point favorite to now the Wolfpack being a two-point favorite. The movement of those points tells me something.

BYU 20, Northern Illinois 10 _ Somewhat surprising that this is only a 7.5 line because NIU is a run-of-the-mill MAC squad and BYU was good enough to beat Wisconsin.

VIRGINIA 24, North Carolina 10 _ Virginia has been an up-and-down team, but UNC has been mostly trending down. Cavaliers should easily cover the nine here.

MISSOURI 42, Kentucky 19 _ While UK has shown some life this season, it is still a basketball school. Missouri sold me with a 66-33 win over a halfway decent Memphis squad last week and should easily cover the modest 6.5 spread.

Next week, we get to go to Parx Casino and put real modest money on the non-Temple slate, even though the house and the farm remain off limits.

Last Week: No Picks

Overall: 14-9

ATS: 8-16

Monday: The Fan Experience

 

 

04.30.18
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6 Grim Facts of Life In The AAC

footballs

No matter how Mike Aresco wants to look at it, there are at least six—maybe more—identifiable facts of life in the American Athletic Conference.

The sooner the member schools come to grips with them, the better:

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There Is No Such Thing as a P6

Ideally, the way to get to the big boy table for the conference is for it to be added to the group of haves known as the Power 5 (SEC, ACC, Big 12, Big 10, Pac 12). That is not going to happen no matter how many down markers are labeled P6.

Everybody Wants Out

With the possible exception of Wichita State, just about every member school wants out. They are all working behind the scenes to impress the P5 in the unlikely event that one of the P5 members is kicked out. Everyone who is in is grandfathered in and no one will be kicked out.

Basketball Teams Will Continue to be Marginalized

As Temple hoop fans found out in 2010 when the Owls had a higher RPI, strength of schedule, more top 25, top 50 and top 100 wins than three Power 5 schools, the P5 got the benefit of the doubt. That’s because those schools have an inordinate number of representatives on the selection committee.

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An AAC Team Will Never Win The Football National Championship

If UCF did not win the NC last year, no AAC ever will. Central Florida did everything it was asked to do—win all of the games on its schedule, win a NY6 bowl game and beat the only two teams that handed the eventual champion, Alabama, its only loss. The system is so skewed that the AAC is so screwed. For Temple to get a Final Four slot this year, for instance, the Owls would have to win all 12 of their regular-season games, the championship game at Lincoln Financial Field and Boston College and Maryland would have to win the ACC and Big 12 titles respectively. Even after those unlikely scenarios are achieved, an invite is not a slam dunk and the haves will probably find an excuse to keep the Owls out.

Transfer Rule Will Make Things Worse

With the new transfer rule coming into effect for the 2019 season, things will get worse, not better, for AAC teams as some of the elite players who have proven themselves as freshmen and sophomores are lured to the larger conferences ostensibly for the purpose of positioning themselves better for the NFL Draft.

The Window Has Been Slammed Shut

For schools like UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and Houston—at one time seen to be attractive additions for a P5 school—the tiny window of opportunity to join the big club has been slammed shut. There is only so much of the TV pie to be sliced and the people about to be eating those 64 pieces want to get their mouthful and won’t be handing scrapes to the few pressing their noses against the window. There doesn’t seem to be any talk of expansion in the future.

Wednesday: The Temple Drafted Guys

Friday: Calling All Fans

Monday: Ranking The Greatest Temple Teams

 

11.23.17
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Thanksgiving With (Just a Few) Words

Editor’s Note: The biggest reason I have to be thankful for (as a Temple fan at least) was to be able to write this story roughly one year ago. On this Thanksgiving Day, we republish it in its entirety.

The morning after arguably the greatest win in Temple football history, there are no words.

Literally no words are coming out of my mouth, at least in the sense of being able to talk this morning.

The throaty and hoarse condition is more than OK because it was the result of cheering for the Owls at beautiful Navy-Marine Corps Stadium as they captured what really is their first-ever major football championship. The 1967 MAC title was admirable, but that was a day when the school played to a level of football that was beneath their status even then as one of America’s great public universities.

So this was it.

ride

Walking out of the stadium and into the concourse, I let out a very loud primal: “THAT’S WHAT I’M TALKIN’ ABOUT!!”

Fortunately, I got a few high fives and smiles from my fellow Temple fans and not fitted for a straightjacket. It also put the voice out for 24 hours, maybe more.

When it comes to Temple football today at least, you cannot think in terms of a national championship—the deck is stacked against G5 teams in an unfair system—so what happened yesterday was the pinnacle of Temple football success. Thousands of Temple fans, easily in excess of 10,000 Temple fans, made Navy’s 15-game home winning streak a moot point by turning that stadium into a Temple home field advantage and to get to that mountaintop and look down from it is incredibly satisfying.

Hey, it’s a pretty spectacular pinnacle. The only thing that would have made it better was a G5 slot in a New Year’s Six bowl against Penn State, but that’s not happening for a number of reasons that are not important today. (Objectively, would you take a team for the Cotton Bowl that has won seven straight against this schedule and beat a Navy team, 34-10, over a Western Michigan team that struggled to beat a four-loss Ohio team? I would but I don’t expect the bowl committee to be that objective. I can also grudingly see the WMU argument.)

What is important is that the Owls have gone from being a perennial Bottom 10 team and laughed at nationally to being ranked in the Top 25 for two straight years and going to a title game one year and winning it the next. When you think of the success P.J. Walker and Jahad Thomas have had here, there is a Twilight Zone quality to the parallel between this success and their success at Elizabeth (N.J.). In their freshman year at Elizabeth, they won one game; in their freshman year at Temple they won two games. In their sophomore year at both schools, they won six games. In their junior year at both schools, they reached the title game and lost and, in their senior year at both schools, they lifted the ultimate hardware together.

Truly amazing and I will miss both of those guys.

Back on Cherry and White Day, I wrote that this team will be better than last year’s team while people on other websites—notably, Rutgers and Penn State fan boards—insisted that Temple would take a step back. I was consistent in my belief that this was the STEP FORWARD year, not the step back one, and that belief was rooted in knowledge that both the defense and offense were significantly upgraded despite graduation losses. Only a Temple fan who follows the team closely would know that, not the know-it-alls who make assumptions on subjects they have no idea what they are talking about.

Today at noon, the Owls will know where they will go for a bowl game. They can finish the season in the top 25 and set the record for most wins in Temple football history.

It won’t be the cake because we saw that yesterday, but it will be the Cherry on top of that white cake and it will be delicious even going down past what promises to be a future sore throat.

Friday: Fizzy’s Corner

Saturday: Tulsa Preview

Sunday: Game Analysis

Tuesday: Season Analysis

Thursday: Looking Ahead

05.29.17
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5 Reasons Why Owls Could Repeat

NCAA FOOTBALL: DEC 03 AAC Championship - Navy v Temple

The AAC title would be a nice keepsake item for the Owls this season.

The Navy-Marine Corps Memorial Stadium is a very nice place, one that Temple football fans called home for the last two games of the 2016 season.

One of them, a father of a recent player, mentioned to me that he would not mind if the thing could be placed on a forklift and plopped right onto the site that for years was Geasey Field. Not a bad idea, I said, if it could find into that spot.

As I walked out of that stadium in late December, I remember thinking another thing.

I liked that stadium a whole lot better the first week of the month than the last. It looked like the Taj Mahal on the first Saturday of the month and, after a 34-26 loss to Wake Forest, like Northeast High.

Playing and winning a meaningful game made it a whole lot better-looking.

Temple has been in the AAC championship game the last two years, losing the first, winning the second.

Few expect the Owls to return for a third-straight time, maybe even host it,  but I don’t think it’s impossible.

Here’s 5 reasons why the Owls could repeat:

sharga

Don’t Mess With a Good Thing

Offensive coordinator Dave Patenaude mentioned that the Owls would keep their identity as a run-first, pass second team, then talked the out the other side of his mouth in the same sentence, saying the Owls could go to multiple receiver formations as well. The Owls have the best blocking fullback in the country, Nick Sharga, for one more year. If they are going to go to multiple wide receivers, do it in 2018, not 2017. At his Baylor press conference, Matt Rhule said the Owls ran the ball simply because “we had a NFL fullback.” They still do.

maniac

Mayhem Takes Over

The T-Shirts the university sells isn’t just an empty slogan: Mayhem Is Coming. That’s because everywhere Temple coach Geoff Collins has been he has structured a defense based on pressuring the quarterback into mistakes, like fumbles and interceptions. In players like Sharif Finch and Jacob Martin (defensive ends) and tackles Michael Dogbe and Karamo Dioubate, they have guys who can get to the quarterback and strip the ball from him before he’s able to get a pass out of his hands. At least that’s the plan.

russo

Quarterback Separation

Anthony Russo is the best quarterback prospect out of the three Philadelphia City high school leagues (Public, Catholic, Inter-Ac) since Matt Ryan played for Penn Charter. Russo’s stats playing better competition than Ryan dwarfed the current NFL MVP (Russo had 35 touchdown passes his senior year as opposed to 20 for Ryan). Yet Russo hasn’t been able to establish separation with fellow quarterback contenders Logan Marchi, Frank Nutile and Toddy Centeio. If he does in the next few months, watch out.  Really, all any of the quarterbacks needs to do is match P.J. Walker’s first year (20 touchdowns, 8 interceptions) because the running game with Jager Gardner and Ryquell Armstead could carry this offense.

Infusion of Confidence

A win over Notre Dame in the first game would inject an infusion of confidence into the players that could carry over into the rest of the season. Face it: They all seem to like Collins, but nothing would give Collins credibility to his players like beating ND on national TV. They could ride that Tidal Wave through the AAC. How sweet would it be for Temple to beat Notre Dame and then see the Irish go on a six- or -seven-game winning streak after that?

kraft

Game Day/Week Coaching

While Rhule, like Al Golden, were great program CEOs and very good recruiters, they had some brain farts on game day that caused Temple fans and ex-players to shake their heads. Such an example occurred against Army in the opener last year when the Owls played their base 4-3 against a triple option, instead of plugging the A Gaps and forcing Army’s quarterback to beat them in in the passing game. Another example was a poor week of preparation prior to Penn State led to 120 yards in Owl penalties in a 34-27 loss. Cracking the whip during practice the week before might have cut those penalties in half and meant the AAC champ winning at the Big 10 champ. Huge opportunity missed not only for Temple but for the G5. If Collins does a better job at studying opponent’s game film than Rhule did, he could steal one or two more wins than the so-called experts expect.

Those one or two extra wins could make all the difference in the world.

Wednesday: P5 Misconceptions

02.10.17
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The Schedule: You Never Know

amcosked

Getting Stony Brook on someone else’s schedule is a plus.

Watching some of the recent episodes of Saturday Night Live, I miss some of the old characters like the ones played by the late John Belushi and Gilda Radner. (It’s still pretty good and Melissa McCarthy hit a home run with her skit on Donald Trump’s press secretary Sean Spicer, but most of the skits are dribblers to second base, pop ups or strike outs.)

That’s not what it was like in the old days when Radner and Belushi were hitting home runs and guys like Chevy Chase, Dan Akroyd and Billy Murray were routinely hitting doubles off the wall.

I thought about Gilda while thumbing down the recent release of the Temple 2017 schedule.

americansked

I would like another one of these bad boys, but it’s going to be tough.

One of her catch phrases was: “You never know.”

Look at the Philadelphia Eagles’ 2006 season. Before that year even started, fans on every talk radio show penciled in the team as losing three December games, at the Redskins, at the Giants and at the Cowboys in consecutive weeks and the doom and gloom got worse when Donovan McNabb was lost for the season with a broken leg before those three games. His backup, Jeff Garcia, came in and beat the Skins (21-19), Giants (36-22) and Cowboys (24-7) to win the NFC East.

You never know.

This time a year ago, many Temple fans (not me) were saying that the losses of players like Tyler Matakevich, Matt Ioannidis, Robby Anderson and Tavon Young meant Temple would take a step back from a 10-4 season of 2015.

templesked

I looked at a still-loaded roster and argued otherwise, that this was the “step forward” year and not the step back one. Since this year’s 10-4 included a championship, I was right.

You never know if I will be as right about this one but here it goes. I hope not to be as right about this season but I already knew about the teams Temple would play in 2017 and have always said this would be the “step back” year and not the step forward one.

It’s only a step, though. Owl fans can relax because we’re not falling into the mine shaft. Most Owl fans do not know how good Anthony Russo is. Having seen pretty much his entire high school career, I do and this how I will describe his upcoming Temple time: He won’t be as impressive as P.J. Walker was in his first season, but he will make you forget Walker in seasons two through four. (He’s not as elusive as Walker, but let’s not kid ourselves. P.J. was no Fran Tarkenton, Bobby Douglas or even Russell Wilson in the important skill of eluding pass rushers.)

So I stand by that prediction that it will be a slight step back, not a huge one.

I thought before Matt Rhule left that it would be a positive year for him to go 7-5 with a bowl win in 2017 and I think that is the measuring stick for new head coach Geoff Collins. If he goes 7-5, he’s just as good a coach as Rhule but I think there is a good chance he could go 8-4 or better. Listen, no one expects him to go 10-4 again and, if he does, Ed Foley is probably coaching Temple’s third-straight bowl loss.

The expectation here is eight wins and a bowl win and that’s in the “step-back” year because 2018 figures to be even better.

There is plenty of talent left on this team, even if you do not expect them to beat Notre Dame, Tulsa, Navy or South Florida. I’m not buying Houston. Wasn’t Temple the champion in the same league Houston could not win last  year? Didn’t Houston struggle on the road against teams like SMU, UConn and Navy in the last two years? Did not Temple win at all three of those places? I rest my case. Ryquell Armstead running behind the lead blocking of Nick Sharga with the explosive receivers Temple has is a good way to start. The defense should be outstanding once again. Any line that has Jacob Martin and Sharif Finch as the ends, and Karamo Dioubate, Michael Dogbe, Greg Webb and Freddy Booth-Lloyd in the middle with a secondary of Champ Chandler, Mike Jones, Delvon Randall and Artrel Foster will bring Mayhem.

The way Temple seasons have worked recently, though, is that they always have beaten someone you penciled them in for a loss before the season (i.e., Vanderbilt, 2014; Penn State 2015 and South Florida 2016) and always lost to someone you never expected them to lose to in the same season. Can we break that cycle this year?

I think so. Just hold serve.

If Collins holds serve, he will be our guy and probably hang around to coach the bowl win.

However, as Emily Latella would say: “You never know” but, gun to my head, I would pick eight over six or even seven and I will stand by that number.

(No posts Sunday or Tuesday due to minor surgery but God-willing will return Thursday)

11.12.16
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A Day Without Owls, But Not Without Football

aacbowls

Going through severe Temple football withdrawal today, but heartened by the fact that the Owls needed this week to ice up those injuries and rest those weary bones for the final two legs of the regular-season trip.

The reward for finishing the “Unfinished Business” will be one of six bowls above, some sweet, some sour. Here are our picks this week.

picknov

Postscript: Miami won, 34-14 (not 35-14 as we predicted) and Penn State won, 45-31 (not 41-24 as we predicted). Air Force won, 49-46 and Navy got a push at 42-40. We lost outright on ECU, which got smoked, 55-31, by SMU.

08.12.16
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Beyond Unfinished Business

The linebacker corps is in good hands with 3 returning starters.

The bad news for all but one of the 127 teams is that nobody is going to win the national football championship like our neighbors, who shall remain nameless, won the national basketball title.

All but that one team, of course, and, at this point, it doesn’t look like it will be Temple. (However, if you want a nice $10,000 return on a measly $10 investment and believe in the Owls, sportsbook is taking bets.)

When the Owls made “Unfinished Business” their team slogan this year, they probably did not mean winning the national championship but the good news today is there is a whole list of ancillary goals that would finish the business.

tieins

AAC bowl tie-ins this season.

It starts with the American Athletic Conference championship, which is well within reach. All the Owls have to do to secure home field, presumably against Houston, is to run the table in their seven home games and not be upset on the road. They will probably be favored at Memphis and at UConn, two of their tougher road games. They can even afford a loss at Penn State and still achieve that goal. Home field should beget a win over USF (hey, it did in 2012) and a crowd of 40,000-plus rabid Temple fans in the AAC championship game could be the difference.

What about Beyond Unfinished Business?

Even if the Owls do not reach their No. 1 goal, there are a number of ways the business conducted this season could be better than the work done last year. Winning a school-record 11 games is within reach and that’s some nice work. Beyond that, though, the AAC has seven bowl tie-ins and the team’s (and especially the administration’s) goal has to be to get the Owls in a bowl game against a Power 5 team. Last year, Owls Daily editor Shawn Pastor reported that the administration was offered the Birmingham Bowl against Auburn and a bowl in Louisiana against Virginia Tech, but turned down both offers to play near a large alumni fan base in Florida.

Big mistake.

This year, “Unfinished Business” also means taking care of business once those offers are on the table. That means no “turning down” any of these three bowls should the Owls be offered one:

Birmingham Bowl Dec. 29, 2016

Birmingham, Ala. – vs. SEC

St. Petersburg Bowl Dec. 26, 2016

St. Petersburg, Fla. – vs. ACC

Military Bowl presented by Northrop Grumman Dec. 29, 2016

Annapolis, Md. – vs. ACC

The other bowl tie-ins are the Miami Beach Bowl and Bahamas Bowl (both versus MAC foes),  and the Boca Raton Bowl vs. Conference USA. Thanks, but no thanks. Been there, done that.

While winning the national championship would be nice, and winning the AAC the real deal, getting those 11 wins and beating a Power 5 team in a bowl would also qualify for Unfinished Business and be more than acceptable consolation prizes.

It all begins in a little over two weeks against Army and the focus then and every week hence is going to have to be laser-sharp, but  this is a business deal that should be profitable.

Monday: The Next Big Red One

08.05.16
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Media Day Takeaway: The U Word

 

It’s a new team and probably a better one than last year’s version.

Unfortunately, many of us have heard the “c” word and the “b” word and the “f” word but it took until AAC Media Day earlier this week for Temple football fans to hear the “u” word for the first time.

Unbeaten.

That’s a pretty sweet word and it rolled off quarterback Phillip Walker’s tongue like a double-layered cake.  As far as I can recall, that’s the first time a Temple player has uttered the “u” word in any formal setting, although I’m sure a couple of guys might have dreamed about it out loud during an off-season weightlifting session.

Asked by a media member what the team’s goals were, Phillip said: “League championship, unbeaten season …”

Unbeaten season? Why not?

aacchamps

For most of my adult life, I never associated “unbeaten season” with Temple as an achievable goal. This year it might be on that top shelf of reachable things.  At the very least, an unbeaten regular season is in play. A few months ago, I wrote I believed this team had all of the ingredients to break the school record for wins with 11 and that should be the minimum goal (with the maximum one being an AAC title).

If you can win 11, you can win 12 and that’s what Phillip Walker is talking about. Every year, I’ve been following Temple, the Owls usually lose a game or two they should not or win a game or two they should not. To reach an unbeaten season, though, pattern will have to be broken. This year might be the year. (The exception was the 1979 team, which lost to only two top 10 teams by a grand total of 16 points. Also, the 1974 team lost only to a much higher-ranked Boston College team.)

First, they will take a lot of confidence from a 2-0 start into Penn State. They will also take a proven four-year starting quarterback there against an untested rookie. Win there, and that opens a wide path for 7-0 going into USF, which is at home this year. Forty thousand crazed Temple fans can make a difference in that one. I don’t buy this fallacy that USF has “too much” for Temple this year. USF lost to Western Kentucky, so let’s pump the brakes on comparing them to Alabama. Of course, Temple lost to Toledo.

Win there, and it’s an Autobahn ride to 12-0.

Since all of the above puts the title game in Philly, 13-0 is also possible. Now 14-0 or 15-0, that might be another shelf no vertical leap can reach but it is fun thinking about.

Monday: Roster Thoughts

02.14.16
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Temple Better Be Paying Attention

Cincinnati Enquirer blows cover off Bearcats' Big 12 bid.

Cincinnati Enquirer blows cover off Bearcats’ Big 12 bid.

Since it was too cold to go outside on Saturday, time is never wasted watching ESPN 30 for 30 episodes of the award-winning series. The Saturday one featuring the Big East particularly pertained to Temple.

Louisville head coach Rick Pitino hit the nail on the head when he said: “In all of those Big East meetings, everybody was swearing unity and allegiance to the Big East and the minute they were over, all of the athletic directors were on the phone trying to make deals with another conference.”

It is with that backdrop that Temple should be concerned with the Cincinnati Enquirer’s report today that the President of that university was in active talks with the Big 12 to get his team out of the American Athletic Conference (AAC).

Temple should be paying attention because, if it was not obvious before, it is every man (school) for himself and without Cincy and UConn, Temple could one day wake up and find itself in nothing more prestigious than Conference USA.

The Oklahoma President says that it is all about TV and, if so, Temple—not Cincy—holds the ace in this deck of cards and that’s something Neil D. Theobald and Pat Kraft should be hammering home. Temple should be looking out for Temple, period.

From the Enquirer’s report, it is clear that Cincy is taking that approach.